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- - Ryanair off piste at PIK (23 Dec 2009)(https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/399811-ryanair-off-piste-pik-23-dec-2009-a.html)
| The Real Slim Shady | 24th Dec 2009 13:56 |
At EMA on the 21st(?) only 23m of runway width had been cleared. Two Easyjet aircraft waited 2 hours for a minimum of 30m to be cleared however two Ryanair's departed and one landed before this operation had been completed. Now the AOC may be different but the laws of physics do not differenciate. I would be most interested to hear the Captains justification for departing from a contaminated runway. Ryanairs approach to risk is questionable.
Until you know all the facts I suggest you keep your loud mouth unsubstantiated opinions to yourself.
Ryanair crews undertake specific approved narrow runway training and operate under a different authority to easyjet.
Furthermore, I didn't notice anyone question the Norwegian Shuttle 737NG Captaan about his decision NOT to deice in freezing rain at SXF last week when everyone else, Ryanair included, was deicing.
Ryanair's approach to risk is that we took a 1 hour delay to deice because we have a clean wing policy.
| Checkboard | 24th Dec 2009 14:09 |
Ryanair's approach to risk is that we took a 1 hour delay to deice because we have a clean wing policy.
Many (not all) operators ban operations completely in freezing rain, Slim :hmm:
Furthermore, I didn't notice anyone question the Norwegian Shuttle 737NG Captaan about his decision NOT to deice
Can't seem to find the thread about that one! Can't comment if I can't find it! :hmm:
| Aldente | 24th Dec 2009 16:18 |
Slim, you might want to check Ryanair's Winter Ops Manual , which states "minimum cleared width is 30 metres for take off and landing"
special training for narrow runway operations is for operations to destinations such as Memmingen and nothing to do with winter ops. Ryanair aircraft cannot take off or land on less than 30 metres cleared width regardless of what training they had.
Tsk tsk , you should know that - hardly future BC material is it ?
| nicolai | 24th Dec 2009 16:35 |
The pilots " failed to preserve the flights records in the aircrafts black boxes as required by Ryanair regulation".
Is that possible?
The final report says (page 11)
co*ckpit Voice Recorder (CVR) data was not available for the investigation because the ANSV was informed of the event only after a few months from its occurrence. The information regarding the phase of the flight under investigation had been overwritten during the subsequent operational activity of the aircraft concerned. After landing at Pescara, the crew did not disconnect the CVR power supply, as prescribed in the operators procedures, by pulling the relevant circuit breaker.
Not the first time, won't be the last time... especially not for crew with other things on their minds like this poor guy.
| The Real Slim Shady | 24th Dec 2009 17:13 |
Aldente
Did I mention any minimum?
All I said was that FR crews are narrow runway trained: you may wish to note the comments earlier about 30m cleared width etc.
The small, but inescapable training issue is, regardless of the 30M rule, FR crews have SPECIFIC narrow runway training ergo, it isn't such a huge deal for us as it might be for the Orange brigade.
| zerotohero | 24th Dec 2009 17:20 |
Polax52
I refer you to my previos post about time pressures and all that,, where are they? I dont have any in my mind from MOL when doing the operation, if it happens on time fantastic, but if it does not then who cares? I put a note about it and go home, never been called at home to ask why there was a delay? they dont need to, its in black and white, normally late fueling or slow boarding or slot or de-iceing,,,,,,,,, where are these MOL time pressures?
the day I am told to speed things up and risk safty is the day I hang up my Ryanair boots, as would be with (hopefully) all our pilots, no one tells me what to do in there, its there train set but when I am operating it I do there SOP's to the point of safty, outside the SOP's is airmanship and not cowboyness
I want to go home, dont care if its late as long as I get there.
| tarnish26 | 24th Dec 2009 17:57 |
I understand the duty runway at the time was 13 but as the norm with RYR coming from the south they elected to use 31....saves on air and taxi time........I also hear that the braking action at the stop end was reported as being poor.....also unusual if landing 31 not to be able to take the link off before the end.......OK well I guess one day the truth will come out but at the end of the day no one was hurt........well not yet anyway!!! a few weeks in O'learys salt mines should sort the problem for the poor sods involved!
| c220cdi | 24th Dec 2009 18:25 |
Flap 15 you have demonstreted by your post very poor knowledge of boeing 737 flight crew training manual as boeing do not specify a minimum runway with. I hope you a not a boeing pilot. But hey maybe you are right and boeing are wrong. You have also demonstrated poor knowledge of eu ops regarding aoc's. As a matter of fact i hope you are not a airline pilot. So in the future dont make posts when you have no idea what wou are talking about. Let he without sin cast the first stone. This kind of incident can and do happen to any one of us.
| Bearcat | 24th Dec 2009 23:34 |
I'm suprised Leo has not indulged us at this stage, that case of vintage Château Pétrus I sent him obviously has done the trick....happy xmas to one and all.
Bear
| Checkboard | 25th Dec 2009 11:38 |
FR crews have SPECIFIC narrow runway training ergo, it isn't such a huge deal for us as it might be for the Orange brigade.
.. and to be fair, it seems to be working - FR haven't gone off the sides of any runways. :D
It's just the ends they have trouble with. :p
Of course, very rare to see the Orange brigade have trouble with either!
| Alycidon | 25th Dec 2009 11:48 |
Didn't Orange slither off the TWY in AMS and clout a lamp post a few years back?
| Checkboard | 25th Dec 2009 13:22 |
Indeed, and a very embarrassing taxi accident it was too. Lessons learnt all around and, even though it happened seven years ago those lessons are still being taught - the accident and its investigation appear in the current easyJet winter brief.
| irishpilot1990 | 25th Dec 2009 14:07 |
Guys, what do the statistics say? How many fatalities or injuries since 1985? Let the statistics do the talking not the ryr bashing know it alls. The IAA is the authority that monitors Ryr and they are regarded as one of the strictest safety conscious authorities on the globe.
| RED WINGS | 25th Dec 2009 14:08 |
Oh Slim!!:= Now I know for sure your a flight simmer!!!
Either that or suicidal!
Hmm good will to all men though today :}
| TALLOWAY | 25th Dec 2009 14:12 |
The IAA is the authority that monitors Ryr and they are regarded as one of the strictest safety conscious authorities on the globe.
Shouldn't comedy posts be in Jet Blast ? :p
| Checkboard | 25th Dec 2009 16:15 |
Easy nose dived and came within about 5000ft of smashing into ground over Norwich.
Again, to be fair, you aren't actually referring to a scheduled easy flight there - you are referring to a test flight without passengers. Not quite the same, as that test flight involved deliberately turning off major systems in order to check second and third order safety backups. :=
AND the flight was recovered, and concluded successfully! :D
| pilot999 | 25th Dec 2009 16:23 |
yeh read the report. rolled 90 degrees to unload the aircraft, 100 knot over speed , rediculous plummet towards the ground, hardly your average test flight,RESULT = one very over stressed plane,
Quote "AND the flight was recovered, and concluded successfully!" onLY towards a POINT, THE PLANE SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN PUT IN IN THE FIRST PLACE.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| Checkboard | 25th Dec 2009 16:28 |
ri·dic·u·lous: \rə-ˈdi-kyə-ləs\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin ridiculosus (from ridiculum jest, from neuter of ridiculus) or ridiculus, literally, laughable, from ridēre to laugh
I don't think anyone was laughing, mate. :bored:
The aircraft wasn't over-stressed. It underwent an over-speed inspection, no faults found (due to some very skilled handling), and ferried to the purchaser.
| TALLOWAY | 25th Dec 2009 16:32 |
talloway...you tell us the stats then of how many fatalities have occured on ryr flights due to poor safety practices? 63 million people carried in last 12 months.
no fatal accident or serious injury.that sound right?
people say ryr cut corners for maintence etc. jan this year easy jet maintence proved how good it was.Easy nose dived and came within about 5000ft of smashing into ground over Norwich.
Your attention to what is written seems on a par with the incompetence of the IAA.
I never mentioned Ryanair or their safety record. I was referring to your statement about the IAA.
Do you really think that the success of Ryanair is down to the IAA ? That without such a 'robust' regulator, there would be lots of smoking holes in the ground ? They are a joke. A toothless tiger who are more akin to ostriches than striped big cats.
Seen many IAA guys out in the field in Europe checking up on Irish registered jets, the vast majority of which which are not actually based in the country ? Me neither.
Even Ryanair regularly bash them :rolleyes:
| hec7or | 25th Dec 2009 17:52 |
70 tonne airplane and reliant robin chassis design won't give you a lot of grip at Gambon says Jezza.
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